I have caught many stabbed farmers, it simply requires you to narrow your engagement envelope to only them. You apparently found 8 out of 8 that were stabbed so why not change your fit?

All of the changes you propose will not stop people from farming. You don't need stabs to farm, anyone who is competent will be gone before you land, if they don't want to fight, making warp stabs hard to fit is not going to make them want to fight.

If you had read the previous posts, you would have realized that everything you propose is already well-known, we don't need to know that scrams counter this module. What we are trying to discuss here is how to reduce their efficiency a bit and make it harder to just leave a fight when you are committed.



You basically summarized what is in my mind. It should be slighly more costly and difficult to use, and a few effective maluses would help in that way.

I am sorry but you just can't say "your fit is bad, you should have been able to catch people with warp core stab" the first time you are going for them. Nobody, absolutely nobody, goes to engage someone with more than one scrambler, that would just be completely stupid (exception of some garmur with short+long point, due to its bonuses). Yes I got 8 in a row stabbed, but how could I know before? Maybe tomorrow I'll have 8 real fights in a row, therefore your "put 3 scrams" arguments is simply invalid for a regular use. And for refitting I already said earlier that people don't go back to the plex til you are in local, so forget about that argument.

Now I agree, it happens, and that's why instead of saying "from now on, you can't fit WCS on any ship anywhere anymore", I, from the beginning of this thread, proposed some minor changes to make it a little more challenging, while giving more chance for everybody to get his part of the fun. You guys, on the other hand, are just 100 miles away from the ideas behind this topic. If it is to tell me I can put 3 scrams, or that "I should know" because I can guess all the fits, well thank you captain obvious, but that's not what I am looking for here. However, if you are willing to discuss the present ideas, or propose new ones, then you are more than welcome!

P.S: Corraidhin Farsaidh my bad for the wrong name in the quote. Edited my message and corrected with proper one.

Mobile Depot are not an option due to low cargo space in small ships. But we have stations so we usually can refit on the way, which I do a lot already. Now yeah, someone could even trap me by fitting WCS, warping out, then come back with a proper PVP fit and me coming with 3 scramblers I wouldn't be able to do **** and would probably end up dying. Except that never happened in 2 years actively playing :)

Among the propositions made on first page, I think a good point raised earlier was that increasing CPU/PWG is not a good idea since some ships like freighters have very limiting fitting capabilities. So this one is out. However, as some mentioned in this topic, preventing to use WCS in places protected by a warp gate would be an easy solution: people inside will still have time to leave since warping to the gate, activating and landing take easily 20-30 seconds, and that will let a small chance for the aggressor to get a fight. Coupled with a slight increase in skill requirements (1 day vs 10 min) and limit the number of WCS to 3 (need two scramblers), that would reduce slightly their perfect efficiency without making them useless at all.

Sorry but some people in this game like to do things by themselves without necessarily relying on others. That probably will sound strange, especially since quite a few people here that reacted are from nullsec or high-sec, but that's reality. And fitting scramblers is not always the solution, as discussed previously.

... i know its hard for solo pilots...

.... I even see the same guys in the same systems doing the same plexes all day long :)

It is a half-baked solution that doesn't solve much.

Ok.
The first concern is - making scrams and points obsolete in plexes and alpha reign supreme.

Second, you can do some neat things now that will become impossible if there would be 10-20km bubble inside. I'm talking about separating gangs by acceleration gate killing the first tackle and warping away just as cavalry arrives or quickly bounce in and out to see who's in a plex etc.

Third is unavoidable pod loss that will most certainly happen with in-plex bubbles.

Hmm thats interesting, one ceptor with Extended Point and Scram Ranges, and another with Strength of Disruption, makes the lesser used ceptors more valuable and seems to offer an avenue to avoid this issue. though i think it should be a role bonus not per level as it could become extremely hard to balance if it were per level

...waffle...
Example

I was roaming around solo in Devoid and Bleak Lands in a standard Hookbill, looking for some pew-pew with FW guys, usually open to fights. Did about 20 jumps in the area before docking. During that roam, I engaged 8 people, out of which 8 out there were stabbed. Yes, all of them. I was carrying a Warp Disruptor at first and then swapped for a Warp Scrambler on the way, but that didn't prevented them from warping out.

Here are some of the comments from local:




No need to be a genius to understand that this module basically allow people to be completely AFK while farming the game for ISK (I thought we already had highsec for that...), and leave any fights even when committed, even when you have a scrambler fitted.

Now let's have a look at the module itself and some of its characteristics, and what can be some potential solutions/ideas to improve the current situation:

Current issues

1. Doesn't require any specific skills (Warp Drive Operation Level 1 + Navigation Level 1, taking just a few minutes)
2. Can be fitted on every single ship due to low PWG and CPU requirements (1MW + 30 TF)
3. The drawback is totally irrelevant (-50% targeting range / -50% scan resolution)
4. No limitation on how many can be fitted
5. No limitation on where it can be used (high/low/nullsec, FW, Missions, etc.)
6. There are currently no adaptive counter-measure to this module (only heavy interdictors have infinite point strength)

Ideas
...ideas that are no use due to the points above...

Now, those are just ideas that some friends and myself had after some discussion ingame. I'm sure there will be plenty more, and hopefully we can end up in a situation where WCS actually have some value which comes at a price and need to be trained.

I would agree with you if you could tell me what or who it would impact, except the guys in the FW warfare.

Hauler/Travel fit = if you have three stabs (which is the limit I am proposing) and a guy is trying to kill you, it is either at a gate, at a POCO or at the undock of a station. On a gate, to be able to lock you and point you fast enough he will have a disruptor (cause you will appear at best 15k from him), or he has many friends (like it is the case in gate camps usually), and 3 or 5 stabs are not gonna change a damn thing. He will escape in the first example, and be ****** in the second one not matter what.

I would totally understand if I was asking to remove that item from the game, because in that case it would be impossible to use T1 haulers anymore. But I am realistic, and just asking for some minor adjustments. It is just that you guys don't wanna hear about it at all.


You want me to give you the exact timing or what? I was attacking a guy the other day, he was scrammed and had 3 WCS, totally afk in a plex (0 m/s), lost all his shield and was bleeding armor fast. The guy came back in front of his computer, hit warp, 2 seconds later he was gone. With my slight change of penalties, he would have probably die which was to be deserved for being afk farming. If he would have been there, he would have warped out from the start, and even with a reduction of agility and align time, would have escaped. But in this case it would be OK, since he is active and not totally away.

..., some ships don't have enough mids (some frigates have only 2)...

Wrong, best ship of choice for semi-afk de-plexing is incursus or punisher both with 4 lows.

Many pages back I posted that this was just another one of the never ending stream of "force people to PvP" topics. OP condemned me for not ready his post, yet here in his own words he admits that my assessment was essentially correct.

OP has made several other statements that are flat out false.
My son and at least a dozen of his friends are all FW pilots and have been for years, I have never heard them talk about the stabbed pilots so not ALL FW people are concerned about this.

This same group of FW pilots has never once complained about the afk / semi afk plexers, in fact they relish finding them because they are easy kills. Point and shoot, or hell just alpha them out of existence in which case the WCS actually helps them because of the nerfs required to fit them.